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"The Depths of Ecco". Part #1

About: Gaming Age speaks with Gergely Csaszar, the producer of the upcoming Ecco the Dolphin title for the Dreamcast.

Related Links: Appaloosa


Author
Gaming Age Staff

Date
05/24/99




Gaming Age recently had the opportunity to speak with Appaloosa's Gergely Csaszar, producer of Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future for the Dreamcast.

Today we bring you Part 1 of this exclusive interview. Expect both the remainder of the interview, as well as some special downloads to be posted throughout the rest of this week.

Gaming Age: Where is Appaloosa based?
Gergely: Appaloosa Interactive is in California (Palo Alto), but we have 3 development companies in Hungary. Appaloosa Software, Appaloosa Multimedia and Appaloosa On-Line are in Hungary Subsidiaries. Here we have about 15 people. In Hungary we have over 100. We have been in this business for over 16 years now. We were called Novotrade Interactive, but changed names a few years ago.

GA: Where does a majority of the game development take place?
G: Most of the development work is done in Budapest.

GA: Were you with the company back then?
G: I was in University, but I was "working" for Novotrade in my free time. You see, in Hungary if you are a student, you are not allowed to work officially. College is free once you get admitted.

GA: What is the target FPS for Ecco the Dolphin? 30 or 60?
G: 30. We target to run at a steady 30 fps. The environment we display is huge and detailed, so we need to get everything the DC has to offer in speed.

GA: Who is doing the music for the game this time around?
G: Tim Follin (http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tf/follin.htm) a very talented and experienced composer works on the music.

GA: What is the music going to be like? Atmospheric, upbeat?
G: There are many different environments in Ecco the Dolphin. Music will be varied as well depending on the environment or the dolphin's current situation (exploration, action, fighting, etc.) The music will change depending on the circumstances.

GA: Will the music style be similar to the first 2 Ecco titles?
G: We are still experimenting with the appropriate music style, since we target two different audiences. The music must suit both of the targeted groups.

GA: What are the 2 audiences you are targeting?
G: The first audience is the non-gamers. The non-gamers want to be the Dolphin, and take part in an adventure under water, an environment which is so different from the everyday life experience. They will want to submerge in this huge, mysterious, beautiful world and explore it; feel like the dolphins feel. This audience is the non-violent, "preserving nature" type.

Then we have the second group, the gamers. They will expect Ecco to be a really involving, interesting and fun adventure game, an adventure game with lots of action elements. The story, the puzzles, the action parts must be really good and challenging for this audience. I think we will be successful in reaching both of these audiences with Ecco.

GA: What do you feel the appeal of this title will be for the so-called "hard-core" audience, besides the graphics? Obviously, the hard-core market is more attuned to games featuring competitive, violent premises. Also, what about the game encourages replay, and where do you think the real depth - pardon the pun - lies in Ecco DC?
G: There will be no blood in Ecco. Why do some of us like 3D games like Quake, Tribes, etc.? Because they simulate reality. The closer the physics to reality, the more fun it is to play the game; explore the possibilities, experiment with different things within the environment. Quake is not a great game because of the Solo player mode, it is more like a playground to play in, to have fun.

GA: Well, I'd argue that, as a "hard-core" type - immersive qualities do not necessarily imply reality but rather consistency. I'm more curious if there are any "deep" aspects to play beyond exploration - what mechanisms for advanced play will be in place, besides the tricks? Will there be any statistics, sim-aspects, or random elements?
G: Exploring, inventing new tricks and things is a key element in Quake. The same in Ecco. This is an underwater world with a realistic dolphin, with animals which have pretty sophisticated behaviors, with physics which is trying to be as realistic as possible. Being in this environment you do not feel like this is a unidirectional game (like a movie.) It is a place where you can wander around, interact with other animals and creatures, explore their behavior, play with them, lure them, chase them, make them do things. The sharks, for example, have a pretty complex behavior. Playing with the sharks you will have to learn how they behave and see if you can defeat them, or evade them or make them do things that are useful for some other purpose in the game.

The game is developed in GameWorld Builder(tm), a proprietary engine and tool for 3D games. All of the games we are currently developing are using this technology. One of the great aspects of the GWB environment is that a person like me (a non-programmer) can access and change pretty much every game parameter there is in the game; tuning the game is possible for non-technical people. A designer can have access to all aspects of the game, like 3D terrain, objects, lights, and actors. He can move them around to his liking, set them up as he wishes, without waiting for days till the programmers do it for him. Another interesting aspect of this technology is that it allows structuring of the programs in an organized and modular fashion. Once a behavior is written, it can be attached to any of the objects or actors in the game, and all the parameters for the behavior set up as well. All this can be done through a windows application style interface, which makes it accessible to everyone who can use a mouse. Most of the time I spend in this project is tuning the game, arranging things in the 3D world, setting up parameters for Ecco and other animals. One more beauty of this tool is that you can run the game instantly after changing things around. It runs the simulation on the PC and I can see the results on the graphics card (on a second monitor.)

GA: Will Ecco ever reach the surface? So far everything shown has been well underwater. In the original, it involved many areas where you would have to speed up to make jumps over areas. Will there be such areas in the new Ecco?
G: Yes, Ecco will reach the surface. Actually, the most fun part of this game is interacting with the water surface. The demo did not show this aspect of the game, hey we can't reveal everything yet, but the goal is to have a dolphin, which is controlled by the player, who can do hundreds of tricks, jumps, and acrobatics. The players will be able to spend hours of playing with the dolphin without actually playing "the game" itself. Take Ecco and a pool of water and have fun for hours.

GA: Have you considered a mode that will center around doing tricks such as maybe a skills mode that will rank your ability or maybe even one that will have levels to test your skill?
G: Yes, we do have "games" within the game where the skills of controlling Ecco are rewarded.

GA: Is anything planned with the VMS in conjunction with the game? ie: a mini-game?
G: Yes, we have plans for the VMS, but I cannot discuss it at this time. We have great ideas, but the concept for the VMS is not finalized yet.

GA: Seeing as how this is a Sega owned title, are they placing a lot of restrictions on you guys? Are you free to pretty much take the game wherever you want or do you have any strict design guidelines to adhere to?
G: So far we have not met any restrictions. We do stay within the general guidelines of Sega for making games for the DC platform, but Ecco is not the type of game where we would bounce in restrictions such as game violence, nudity, etc. Design-wise we have complete control over what the game will be and since we are in close communication with SOE they also have their input into some aspects of the design. Naohiko Hoshino oversees the development on behalf of SOE, and Dave Nulty is the producer on SOE's part for Ecco. They are very easy to work with, we are usually on the same wavelength. Their comments were always very helpful

GA: Are there any plans for use of the 56K modem in conjunction with the game?
G: There are no plans to use the modem for gameplay in Ecco.

GA: What kind of research have you done on the physics and behavior of marine animals and for how long have you been doing this kind of research?
G: We have tons of video footage, nature programs, books, sound archives we use for doing research and gain resources from. The most challenging part of the game was/is to make a living dolphin; to make Ecco swim and move like a real dolphin. Maybe not "exactly" like a real one, but better. Reality is not always as interesting as fiction, so we have to exaggerate a bit to make his movements and acrobatics really cool and astonishing. Ecco is not an "animation," it is a mechanism. A program (mathematics) controls all its movements, and mathematics is acting upon Ecco through his bones. The muscles are connecting the bones with the skin. An animator first designs Ecco's basic and special movements, then a sample animation is created. The animation data then converted into mathematical functions. The functions are built into the program which controls the dolphin when the player controls the dolphin, the functions define how the bones move. The most interesting aspect of this is that you can combine movements, because you can superimpose different functions, and thus you superimpose different movements onto each other. The result, the "animation" of the dolphin is a result of many different movements superimposed real time. This gives Ecco a really elastic, fluid motion, and its versatility in responding to both user input and the interactions with the environment.

Once again the Game World Builder technology makes it possible to tune Ecco, much like tuning a high performance racer. You can adjust parameters that control the possible relative positions of the bones, joints, muscle tension, etc. You can adjust pretty much every bit of functionality of the dolphin-engine; speed of movement, speed of animation, turning speed, sensitivity, acceleration, various angles, and dozens of other parameters which define how the dolphin will behave in certain circumstances. Tuning Ecco is a full time job, but every time you achieve your goals, once you tune him up to perform to your liking, it is all worth the hours of work and testing. Once the behavior program for the sharks was done, we spent days playing with the parameters of the behavior to create different types of sharks. Just by playing with the sensing distance, speed, and turning ability, you can create creatures, which look like real, intelligent creatures. Once they start chasing you alone or in a group, it is really fun. After each such session we lock in the working parameters and play with Ecco for hours just for fun. Once again, the biggest reward in doing this project is to be able to create something which works just like a real, living creature.

GA: So what's the projected date for Ecco? Is it planned to be out before '99 is over, or more of a 2000 project?
G: It is still an open question.

GA: So this is going to be a single disc game, right?
G: Yes, it will fit on one disc.

GA: I noticed on the tape most of the puzzles were visual, but are there going to be any puzzles in which you must use hearing only to figure them out?
G: We already have a few musical puzzles, but in general: hearing is always a very important aid for orienting yourself and finding yourself in a truly 3D environment. Sounds will definitely play an important role in the game.

GA: Is there anyone on the Ecco DC development team that has worked on the original 2 Genesis/SegaCD Ecco games?
G: Some of those who worked are on the original Ecco are naturally working on this Ecco too. We have over 100 people in our development studios that are organized in separate teams working on different projects.

GA: How far along is Ecco currently?
G: I cannot convert the state we are currently in into percentages. We are more than half way through Technology, core engine wise we are more ahead than gameplay-wise, but that is a natural state.

GA: Is the game core engine still in development, or is that mostly complete with a core part of the game development being level design?
G: The main driving technologies are pretty much complete. They are undergoing the optimization phase now, currently we are focusing on gameplay (which is not necessarily level design.) We are also pretty far ahead in creating the game environments. We are working on filling them in with interesting actions, puzzles.... making the environment a "living" one.

GA: Is Ed Annunziata involved in the project at all?
G: Ed stopped by to see Ecco for the first time at the E3 booth. He is not involved in the project in any way.

GA: Will the Glyphs from the previous games appear in this one?
G: In the original Ecco the Glyphs were more of a "video game accessory," they were required to give hints to the player. Ecco for DC does have "glyphs" in the story (and in the environments) and they will still be a crucial element of the game

GA: Will there be any CG movies in the game, or none at all?
G: We hope that the game itself will look like a computer rendered real-time movie.

GA: Has the development team been happy with the Dreamcast development tools?
G: DC is a pretty powerful platform, we are very happy to work on it to create a beautiful world like the underwater one in Ecco was not possible before such a powerful platform was available.

GA: Has Sega been helpful in providing assistance?
G: Sega was very helpful in every aspect of the development. People at Sega of Europe took personal care of making sure we have everything we need and working for the project.

GA: What are your thoughts on the PSX 2 and the Dolphin? Has Sony or Nintendo offered any development kits for either?
G: I believe that the Sony people saw Ecco on the E3 show floor (Eds Note: Ecco is a Sega character and will not appear on any other system). As a developer, we are naturally interested in working for all available console platforms that are on the market. We have good relationships with Sony... as you might know they became the publishers of Tiny Tank for us. They like the game and it's good to know that they stand behind it

GA: Is Appaloosa currently planning any other Dreamcast projects besides Ecco?
G: I cannot comment on that, it would be confidential information.

GA: Can you give us a basic premise on the storyline yet, or is that top secret for now?
G: I'll have to check with Sega whether I can talk about the story at this point.

GA: Will the game take place in one huge world? Or will it be divided up into chapters or something similar that will take you to new locations?
G: The game is divided into a number of different worlds. Within each world we have several different areas (environments) where the game takes place. As you saw from the demo, the first world is a beautiful island, with coral reefs, underground caves and tunnels, lakes, volcano, etc. In this world man and dolphin live in harmony. The other worlds are very different from this

GA: A few people saw something in the Ecco video, on the ocean floor, that looked a bit like Tiny Tank. Was that him (it)?
G: No. It is an underwater bulldozer (or flowdozer?) It is controlled by the dolphins in the world, where man and dolphin worked together in a mechanized environment.

GA: Are there any plans for a Demo Disc, containing, or all on, Ecco? Are there any special advertising plans for Ecco, or will it be straightforward like most other games?
G: Regarding Demo Discs, marketing, advertisement you would have to contact Sega.

Tomorrow- Part 2 of our Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future interview.

GA Staff



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